Perusing the “manosphere” in greater breadth and depth again lately

Pretty much ceased doing so in spring of 2015, but in spring of 2016 I’m back at it once again. This time I’ve signed back in to AVFM (as of April) and posted comments for the first time since my initial ones back in 2013. That’s been okay. Not too much to report on that.

But last night something came across my radar about a man named Peter Nolan, a named I’d heard referenced before but knew nothing about. Checked AVFM’s main site and came up with this article about him: http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/peter-andrew-nolanc-a-danger-to-self-and-others/

Hmmm…kinda interesting, in a queer sense. So then I checked out some of the links provided and wandered around until I stumbled onto the man’s videos on youtube.

Talk about ego inflation in the Jungian sense. Oddity. Read a number of his comments and intend to later on continue wandering down that rabbit hole to see what I can see… [Eh, changed my mind. Don’t care to look further into that dude. Read and watched enough.]

This morning I headed off in another direction, briefly checking out Bernard Chapin’s youtube channel since it’s been a long time, which then led me over to Chapin’s site Male Defender where I found this video by The Factory criticizing AVFM and the overall manosphere for its SJW (“social justice warrior” — i.e. Leftist) infiltration:

Paused that one about halfway in (will resume watching later this afternoon) since my curiosity was piqued by something he mentioned about Dean Esmay taking issue with Roosh V. So it’s back to the AVFM main site to find the relevant article: http://www.avoiceformen.com/men/mens-issues/rooshv-and-return-of-kings-sells-chemical-and-ideological-poison-time-to-take-out-the-trash/

That same article being read by Dean:

Ah. Hmm… Personally not a fan of Roosh V after watching several of his videos in the past and reading some of what he’s chosen to put out to the public, including his article about legalizing rape on private property (which Roosh later tried to play off as “satire” — seems to be becoming a common ruse online these days).

ScreenHunter_13 May. 19 16.18I don’t doubt it. Or a real rape charge. Disease-ridden in the least. Even Roosh himself admitted to contracting STIs, didn’t he? Gonna pause and go find out. Found some second-hand quotes claiming Roosh said he’d contracted “molluscum” and urethritis but that he also claimed to be BIG into bareback sex and chose not to be STD-screened for 9 years (perhaps the guys on this forum can let others know where the original content quoted can be found, presuming it’s actually legit): http://pick-up-artist-forum.com/the-most-controversial-quotes-by-pua-roosh-v-vt174774.html

Something in his eyes has always gotten to me — looks like death walking. No compassion, no care, just dulled, empty. Maybe because he was high on something? Just one of the first things that stood out to me about him. And then I listened to him and read his words…

Not that he doesn’t still have a right to free speech. Though others do as well in response to what he puts out there.

Getting back to Dean Esmay’s article, he also linked in there to this little archived gem written by Matt Forney titled “Why Girls Rarely Mean No When They Say No.” Another article by Forney linked with that one is: “The Myth of Female Intelligence.” Oy. Geez. What can I even say about shit like that? Told you people that some folks aren’t going to be able to adapt to all this rapid change, and that there is one clear example of a man lashing out against shifts in age-old gender roles (along with having zero respect for women as free agents). The latter article’s comment section proved pretty humorous though. Glad to see at least a few men talking back to him in the comment section of the first. What a fuckin’ douche.

[And then my mind threatened to go off-roading courtesy of that cool toxicology blog linked in Dean’s article for purposes of explaining the lethality of kratom concentrates, a substance Roosh V apparently markets to his followers. Gonna have to save that blog for future perusing.]

BUT, for the record, I haven’t yet found anything about kratom being linked to creating man boobs or penis shrinkage, so those particular symptoms may be linked with a different substance they’re selling that Dean took issue with. From what I read there, concentrated kratom can produce typical opioid symptoms. I can’t find anywhere where ketamine is listed as being linked to those particular side effects either. Nor phenibut. Nor testosterone. Looked into the “Super Mando” supplement, followed by isolating a few of its listed ingredients (Diindolylmethane, Tribulus, Indole 3 Carbinol) in my searches, and that could maybe be the one Dean’s taking issue with there, since it impacts hormones somewhat (not to the level injecting anabolic steroids do, from what I’m reading), though I’m not finding those two side effects mentioned anywhere. For that portion of his claims I’d personally like to see his sources. But other than that, yeah, liver toxicity looks to certainly be a potential risk with most of those drugs, especially if taken in large doses and/or if combined with alcohol.

OK. So anyway, now I’m aware of what The Factory took issue with and how Dean wanted victims of Roosh or Forney to come forward, claiming he wanted to help them in getting these guys charged for crimes. Hmmm…  Now let me go back and read and listen more on this topic so as to grasp where different sides on the argument are coming from.

… …

Hmmm…  Yikes. Brawling in The Factory’s video comment section. I’m not familiar with The Factory (Dan) but have heard his name around for quite a while. His big claim is that AVfM, and Dean Esmay in particular, has gone Leftist and that it is no longer open to dissenting opinions in that regard. Now, honestly, while I can comprehend how someone might think that based on how the site has toned down its rhetoric in recent years, angling to not come across quite as aggressive so as to not completely turn off moderate and mainstream participants and onlookers (which makes sense for a political movement seeking to gain in public support), there surely are a good number of Right-wingers and libertarians within the AVfM camp as well. Hence why they also take so much heat from the other side of the political fence and are frequently accused of being “tradcons.” Guess they can’t win either way in that respect. But who can?

That’s part of the problem with political and social justice movements these days — everybody out here wants them to cater to their specific interests and outlooks and tend to get upset when those they view as “enemies” are allowed equal airtime and footing. People can’t stand that. Hence why they tend to faction off, which then leads to shitstorms and infighting, as we saw within Feminism crowds and in both Right and Left political groups that splintered into fringes vs. mainstream, and, going further back, among religious groups (which continue debating to this day, particularly in terms of fundamentalism vs. more open and metaphorical interpretations of scripture). Now men’s rights groups and the “manosphere” are dealing with the same ordeal. Inevitable apparently.

Has a lot to do with why I grew so tired of group politics on nearly all fronts. But yet, I can understand their relevance too. The splintering can’t help but occur, and then it becomes a question of whether alliances are even worth maintaining if the worldviews in question are too far apart or conflicting. That’s something folks have to iron out in any given situation on their own. Through the process, feelings and pride get injured and friendships dissolve and opinions may shift. C’est la vie.

One could argue that when these splintering distractions do occur that it takes people’s eyes off the big objectives, thereby allowing more powerful and longer-established forces to keep right on plowing their way to creating what many consider hell on earth. That’s true too. And that’s a real conundrum. Part of the reason why when dissidents wish to slow down the progress of an opposing movement, they find ways to infiltrate and sow such seeds of discontent. But that’s also why, in reverse, when people notice they are being distracted with unending arguments and criticisms from within their own camp they seem to be so quick to accuse one another of being shills and undercover instigators. And on and on it goes…

Surely people can grasp why people like myself—after nearly 15 years of following online political activism from feminism to atheism to peace-building organizations (both offline and online) to, in recent years, observing men’s rights groups and the “manosphere” gaining traction—choose to remain on the sidelines and refuse to pledge full allegiance to any movement or group from here on out. And a person gets criticized for that too, because it’s viewed as lazy, uncaring, apathetic, and even nihilistic. Oy. Seriously, there is no escaping harsh judgments any way you turn here. And so be it. I’ve been figuring out that that’s just the way it is and that you stake your claim based on whatever principles you adhere to most and let the rest fall where it may. We’re not all on the same team nor ever will be, as should be evident by now. Regardless of us all essentially being in the same hand-basket and headed in the same direction (collectively speaking, considering we’re playing in a global environment now and are subject to the workings of major nation-states that are heavily influenced and directed by lobbies and special interests that aim to drag us hither and thither whether we like it or not). Should we take that lying down? No. But there are various possible forms of resistance, not all of which involve grouping up into movements, though there is something to be said about the power of numbers. But movements—all movements—face the very real likelihood of eventually losing sight of their original mission and conceding too much and becoming less coherent through splintered factions to where they don’t prove as effective as once hoped. Or prove too effective at promoting something that many take issue with and had hoped to avoid.

If there were a way to keep the mission and objectives very simple and straightforward, that would be ideal. But good luck with that in this complex of a society (and most especially across various complex and differing societies and cultures). Viewpoints and worldviews can’t help but differ, so I don’t know how folks are supposed to get around these dilemmas. There’s nothing prescriptive to offer other than to work with who you can and let the others go do whatever they will. Because what other choice is there? Impotent as that may sound. The only other alternative is to try to force one another’s hand through conformity pressures (legally sanctioned or otherwise), which is precisely the means that are threatening to lead us toward a totalitarian end. But you have to speak back to power and bullshit, right? Does no good to simply ignore it.

So I don’t know. It sucks and I’m still stuck right there on that point in trying to sort this shit out.

_____________________________________

That aside, somewhere in all of this I read something about somebody named Jim Metokur having Dean Esmay on his podcast (as mirrored in the following clip — the actual interview doesn’t begin until about 11 minutes in):

There they’re discussing their views and reactions to the alleged sex attacks by Muslim migrants in Cologne, Germany, a story I had not learned of before now (but am not terribly surprised by after being tuned in to the U.K. Rotherham sex scandal last year). Sick, sad shit. Big immigration issues over in Europe these days. Yikes. No clue how you resolve all of that. Deportation is underway for those brought up on criminal charges, but these culture clashes have a looong way to go before any kind of peaceful coexistence can be hoped for.

[Update 5/21/2016: Finished listening to that talk between Jim and Dean last night and all I can say is that I wasted nearly an hour of my life on pointless back and forth nonsense there. Wasn’t worth it. Jim aimed to “pwn” Dean, and Dean wasn’t prepared for that. Didn’t go well and wasn’t even comical really. Just dumb. Not a constructive conversation on Muslim immigrants and the potential risks they pose in Western countries due to the culture clash. Would prefer to listen to others who don’t turn the topic into a silly “pwning” competition.]

And before I go any deeper here let me stop to save and upload this shit before I accidentally lose it all, as I sometimes screw up and manage to do.  retard

Gonna create a second part for whatever else that doesn’t pertain to what’s been opened up on here so far.

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