I finished reading R. Tod Kelly’s article tonight titled the “The Masculine Mystique.” Hopefully in a day or two I can pull excerpts from that article to post on here, but since it’s almost time to head out, I’ll stick with highlighting a comment that I largely am in agreement with:
joande 8 days ago
Hello, I’ve studied both the MRA and feminism and as painful as it is due to how badly some MRA’s act I have to side with them. Feminists have known about male victims of domestic violence (as in had hard evidence) since the 1950s and still as late as 2008 feminist groups like NOW were claiming they were a myth. It took a lawsuit by NCFM (National Coalition for Men) in California to force changes to DV laws to allow male victims to get help. That’s half a century of intentionally using their clout and feminists near total control of the research community in academia to hurt innocent men. Christina Hoff Summers a feminist (basically a heretic) has even admitted that DV laws were viewed by feminists as a way to “get revenge”. The fact is gender roles evolved out of necessity (to insure survival see Male Disposibility) and it wasn’t until industrialization and urbanization reached a critical point that women choose to challenge those roles since “mens work” was all but a death sentence up until then. I want men and women to both be free and happy but increasingly our society is being rebuilt to simply privilege women at mens expense with feminism championing these policies. Feminism has created nothing short of a new Jim Crow were men are second class citizens, womens testimony is privileged over mens in court, womens issues are privileged over mens issues in every branch of government, and girls education is privileged over boys.
“Largely” because I’m still unable to “side” with MRAs. Their attitude problems and leaders do get in the way of what they’re pushing for, which is really unfortunate considering how much support they’d find out here in the world if they could not be using this as an opportunity to lambast any non-ass-kissing woman who happens into their “manosphere.”
The abuse little boys experience is a huge problem, as is the educational disparity between the sexes. What I read in the actual article where that Spearhead leader talked about non-payment of child support being one of the last remaining crimes subject to debtors’ prison is a true concern, especially in the case of the man losing his job. (Though I’m willing to bet the debtors’ prison idea gets revampled and extended to penalize more activities going forward, likely starting with us owing on student loans. But that’s just sidenote speculation.) Add to that the need to cease performing circumcisions on baby boys and also to repeal the Selective Service requirement, and we’re looking at plenty to start with that we can agree needs to be changed.
When I read Kelly’s article it did pull at my heart that so many issues aren’t being addressed for men, and I think all the mean-spiritedness and hyperbole and sarcasm has done a disservice by distracting people’s attention from those matters. Instead of us coming in and being educated on these issues, too often people are subjected to twisted ideologies and are growled at for their presumed ignorance.
I happen to see things differently because I don’t believe this system can be fixed through legal routes alone or even primarily and therefore feel at a loss in terms of political activism. But that doesn’t negate how obviously feminism has gone off the charts and is wreaking havoc on public relations as well. Having not gone sniffing around to see what feminists are up to in several years (except when I accidentally happened across Atheism+ last summer), I didn’t realize what battles are going on between these two warring factions (other than lots of talk on “ElevatorGate” and that Sarkeesian chick). This article’s comment section gave me a taste, it being so rare for me to see MRAs and feminists in a neutral space together. And it reminds me just how incredibly condescending, dismissive, and unconcerned feminists have the nasty habit of coming across as.
Hmm…I can see how I would be misunderstood by these people if that’s what they’re dealing with. But labeling any woman that disagrees with them as a feminist isn’t productive either. Plus, according to plenty of MRAs and MGTOWs, they don’t want to know outsiders’ opinions and feel their “movements” have little need to “pander” to the public. But they indeed do if the goal is to draw people into their sphere of concern.
Though, I do think they ought to be careful not to drag out every possible problem or non-50/50 quibble they can conjure up, from “Friend-zoning” to online gamer drama, since that does obscure the most important issues needing to be addressed and, yes, it can appear to trivialize their arguments. Nit-picking is what feminism has been doing, and I just can’t wrap my head completely around why the men’s rights sphere would opt to behave in a similar fashion. It wasn’t respect-worthy when feminists began carting out statistics to throw into every argument, particularly where they could be used to redirect the conversation back to their comfortable talking points, and it’s no more pleasant to come up against when men do the same. It obscures what all is going on when there are 300 different complaints mentioned and people are barking at you, as a woman, to go back to wherever and fix it. I can’t. I am only one person. And since these sort of things take a concerted effort, cooperation is indeed needed. But people aren’t going to be willing to cooperate with a hive of angry men anymore than those guys cared to deal with hives of angry women. It’s stifling, especially for those of us who don’t really fit into any groups or identify with any tribes out here in greater society, and especially when we’ve come up with problems of our own and seriously resent being referred to as “princesses on pedestals” when that just isn’t accurate or fair.
No one likes being mischaracterized like that, and no one wants to stand by like a masochist while others hurl insults at them and members of their respective sex—something we’re incapable of changing and that no one should be shamed for simply being.
Just a few thoughts…