Posting up portions of a conversation (with permission) I had days ago through PM with strangestdudehsp. I’ll color my own words in blue and his in red.
We had been communicating in comment sections, so I reached out to him in the back channel where we expanded on the topics:
I went through a similar hostile phase toward men years back thanks in part to a string of negative experiences jading my outlook. Perhaps that’s just become a necessary phase when reckoning with modern life and sex differences. We live in what’s become a major user culture where most people behave opportunistically and seem very self-assured that they’re in the right even when they’re being calloused and/or bigoted toward others. And that can’t help but leave a mark on people’s psyches in having to deal with it.
I’ve appreciated the comments you’ve posted on my videos and your replies to me on yours. Thanks for your input. Nice to see someone on YT thinking for himself and being willing to be critical of what’s going on even if it’s not the most popular position to take. Take care.
Thanks the appreciation of my comments. […]
Yeah I agree. From what I’ve seen in the mgtow/true forced loneliness/happierabroad movements it’s men who have been chronically rejected or traumatized and have (often) become [misogynists].
There’s a book called self made man by Norah Vincent in which she went undercover for a year as a man (she’s a lesbian) and dated women. She said due to the way women treated her as a man, she developed a dislike for women.
I’ve was speaking to a feminist who said she developed misandry after bad experiences with men. And I know you’ve spoken about your experience of feminists having a bias against men.
It seems that culturally we don’t feel we can say; I’m get habitually rejected or used and it hurts, or I’ve been traumatized by a bad experience or experience – and I’ve developed misandrist/misogynistic sentiments.
Vulnerability is a cultural taboo though, so it’s understandable.
Love the vids.
Ya know, once again, I really appreciated what you just said here. While I haven’t read Norah Vincent’s book, I’ve heard about it and am quite certain her experiences proved true to life. I’ve not only witnessed it in other women toward men, I’ve also dealt with my own version from other women myself. It dawned on me a few years back that some women seem to mistake me for a lesbian, and it’s interesting how they would then behave, as in waiting after lunch for me to pay for the bill or asking me to buy their drinks while we were out, then turning very rude right afterward. Granted, this was pretty rare, but still amazed me nevertheless for their sheer audacity. And I haven’t a doubt in my mind that women are this way and likely much worse toward men when they think they can get away with it.
But the part I really appreciated here is your talking about MGTOW-types feeling habitually rejected and traumatized but it not being acceptable to show one’s vulnerability in that sense. That’s so true, and I can understand how squashing it down inside can lead to brewing resentments to the extent of sparking full-out misogyny in their outlooks. Yes, and this is very troubling for us all.
And maybe I shouldn’t have been so harsh on [those] who appeared to me the least intelligent yet most rabid within the MGTOW/MRM, but I’m not sure how the heck to handle [it] other than to avoid them completely. And that obviously does nothing other than leaves them to stew some more in their own frustrations. But they make themselves very tough to be kind toward, especially when they insist on slinging stereotypes and looking suspiciously upon everything a female does. I’m grateful when older, calmer males take up the initiative to interact with them and demonstrate a different way of being that’s more well-rounded, but I’m not sure what role we women out here on the internet can play to help them realize that vulnerability is a necessary part of life (especially if one is ever to experience love) and that, at the end of the day, we’re all in this together and heavily impact one another.
And I haven’t the foggiest clue how to communicate any of this to other women. They shut me out before I ever got started with them years back, and my success with women has only gone downhill ever since. I can understand why people get frustrated in dealing with women — I’ve found many of them to be extremely intolerant too often. It’s hard enough when you’d like to befriend women, and I imagine only that much more painful when you desire to love and be loved by them intimately.
What is happening to us, hon? I honestly am seeing this as an Orwellian (“1984”) nightmare unfolding where men and women segregate off and turn hostile and extremely skeptical toward one another, and where sex comes to resemble rough porn more often than tender lovemaking because the goal of bonding has been so thoroughly shattered. It all looks like hell on earth to me — it’s tragic. And it’s painful for nearly everybody and I believe is driving people mad (hence why I even concern myself with a potential rise in violence going forward).
If you’d like, and it’s completely up to you but I’d be very interested, would you maybe want to write up a piece similar to what you stated in this last PM that I could post on my blog for others to read? It could be kept anonymous or I could link it to your channel, either way. No pressure, just an idea. Because I really think you’re pointing at something important there, and men tend to be more open to hearing these sorts of things coming from other men.
You’re welcome. 🙂
Yeah, you’ve experienced what a lot of men go through. A Mgtow guy actually made a true observation IMO and IME: Many women are aware of their sexual power, and are also aware of the cultural norm “women are the selectors and men are the initiators”. So being opportunistic – like many human beings are as you pointed out – women often callously use the circumstances to their advantage.
“But they make themselves very tough to be kind toward, especially when they insist on slinging stereotypes and looking suspiciously upon everything a female does.”
Yeah that’s the problem, aggression begets either aggression or aversion – as you know.
MGTOWers tend to present hypothesis and cultural commentary about hypergamy, the disposability of men in media representation, opportunisitic and rude women, etc. But won’t explain why it’s a problem, eg. they want women who love them for who they are and not what they have, they want to be treated with significance and emotional visibility, they want sincere love and affection, etc.
In all honesty it is still difficult for me to admit to people the above too. Men and women are socialized to discount men’s emotional capacity IMO.
“And I haven’t the foggiest clue how to communicate any of this to other women. They shut me out before I ever got started with them years back, and my success with women has only gone downhill ever since. I can understand why people get frustrated in dealing with women — I’ve found many of them to be extremely intolerant too often. It’s hard enough when you’d like to befriend women, and I imagine only that much more painful when you desire to love and be loved by them intimately.”
Yeah that’s part of the problem. I’ve personally watched guys try to explain that they find it difficult to be expected to be the ones who have to be vulnerable (ie. initiating communication offline and online dating), and I’ve witnessed women literally mock or dismiss them for expressing their difficulty with vulnerability.
There was a british TV actor who hosted a radio show and the topic was how rude some black women are when men approach them.
And when one lady said;
“I don’t see what the big deal is, if you go up to a woman and she looks up and down and giggles and rejects you. It’s no big deal.”
He replied; “Have you ever approached someone and had them look you up and down and giggle at you?”
She replied; “No, I haven’t.”
He replied; “Then you don’t know how it feels then do you?”
I’ve pretty much come to the conclusion that 2 of the most vital skills that aren’t taught to children by parents or educators are[:] emotional intelligence and empathy. Without developing those skills to a high level I don’t think personal and social well being is possible.
And like you’ve pointed out before empathic social narratives are vitally important for social cohesion. Men and women are focusing on what they are deprived of and their social struggles, but are not acknowledging the challenges the other gender faces.
Men and women seem to have a simultaneous attraction and hostility towards one another.
“If you’d like, and it’s completely up to you but I’d be very interested, would you maybe want to write up a piece similar to what you stated in this last PM that I could post on my blog for others to read?”
Sure, I have no problem with you using it.
Here’s one of his videos, for those who may be interested: