Moving on…

Well, that was an interesting year of weirdness. And now it’s officially coming to an end. The so-called “manosphere” can go do whatever it wishes — I think I’m done engaging in all of that. Idiots and assholes aren’t my cup of tea, and so long as there remains a healthy number of those types among their ranks—fuck it—I’ll cease wasting my time there.

I realize my points don’t always come out as clearly as I’d like, but I did come in good faith and was willing to listen to people who weren’t just hunting for an endless online feud. Still think some of them are cowards, and why they take such incredible issue with being noted as such when they’re running around online calling out everybody else with all kinds of rude pejoratives remains a mystery to me. In short, don’t dish it if you’re unwilling to take it.

We’re all in this ship together, headed in the same direction, whether we like it or not. I don’t expect things probably will change for the better during my lifetime, but I am interested in pondering the possibilities. That doesn’t do much for those promoting their brand of activism, so I’ll leave them be and continue on my own little way. We’re not all destined to get along, that is a given.

Off to more interesting corners of YT and the internet…

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Update 11/01/2013: It’s been shown I can stare into an abyss for months or years on end.  Ha  Yay, stubbornness and curiosity!  clap  heh

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8 Responses to Moving on…

  1. I’ll keep working on these angry men…I just wonder where their frustration is coming from or if it is justified. But you know what, I’ll keep working with them because I do believe the scales have tiled too far and if we don’t there might be a bigger problem in the future. P.S. I’ll try mot to focus on the ass holes. With that said, yes we are in this together. Dave

    • Byenia says:

      Ya know what, Dave? I think I’m just getting tired of my fellow human beings. ha Sad but apparently true. Was already running out of energy before I stumbled across the men’s rights sphere on YT last year. Known enough jackasses so far in this life and am really not wanting to sign up to deal with any more of it, especially not if dudes are going to act like they think they have the right to lash out at anybody and everybody because they’ve experienced pain and problems. It’s like: welcome to the party — such is life. And to whatever extents we all deal with what we deal with. A person’s sex alone doesn’t tell us much about them, so all this reducing people down to some neat stereotype to suit ideological purposes is just insane. It’s insane when feminists do it, and it’s insane when men opposing them do it.

      It seems to me if the goal is to grow and to work toward something better than what we have now, fighting incessantly over trivialities isn’t moving us in that direction. Some folks come across as simply having an axe to grind, and while I get that they’re upset and maybe healing, why is that the problem of everybody else out in society or on the internet? Are there no constructive ways of expressing our frustrations and sharing our stories with one another that don’t include the demonization of some group of people? Not only is such a mindset overly simplistic, it’s a fruitless waste of energy.

      Yes, we are in this together, always have been, yet we’re creating what’s shaping up to look like an Orwellian nightmare where the sexes are segregated by hostility and distrust, caged within a highly-exploitative system that’s breaking down our spirits. I get that people are turning on one another down here on the ground because these are the people we interact with and love and get directly mistreated by, but they were born into this world just as we were and had no greater hand in fashioning it than anyone else alive today has had. So instead of burning up so incredibly much energy trying to convince everybody that the opposite sex is the source of nearly all of our ills, why can’t we start thinking of ways out of humanity’s current predicament? We’re all miserable apparently, so what do people have to lose in shifting the focus for a while to see if it bears more fruit than the mindless strategy of spreading “hate”?

      We could be reading and exploring information that can help expand our ways of looking at life. We could be critiquing our own positions to examine the logic in finer detail. We could be loving those we are lucky enough to be blessed to have in our lives. We could be taking more direct action if activism feels like our calling. We could be trying to improve communication across divisions and trying to better understand where the other is coming from so that reaching common ground may someday become possible.

      I’m admittedly aggressive, that’s no secret. And I can “rabble rabble” with the best of ’em on the right subjects. But my time coming up around religionists (mostly of the Baptist variety), then exploring feminism, taught me enough about how blanket stereotyping and playing the blame game is destructive and unfair. It’s stifling and condescending, and it’s just pitting people against one another and encouraging them to lock horns until one figures out how to practically annihilate the other (figuratively speaking, one hopes).

      Paul Elam’s words in those articles I read of his on AVfM truly did disturb me. Depressed me all day in fact. There’s no way on earth I can go along with someone with a heart and mind like that, and it causes me to seriously question the motives of those who choose to. While I understand interpersonal violence on some scale is unavoidable in this life, and perhaps that’s not always such a bad thing (thinking here of necessary social checks and balances), the truth of the matter appears to be that man has gone rabid. It’s very sad to come across since I’d like to think people like him belong to a very small minority; yet look at how many people are attracted toward him. Why? Because they’re willing to overlook a black heart if they might stand to benefit in some way?

      That shit’s for the birds. A bad leader isn’t worth following anywhere, not in my book. And he’s one among several with troubling aspirations aiming to attract and “guide” others in those movements.

      This isn’t entirely directed at you anymore, and I certainly understand if you choose to quit reading. I’m just really disappointed, Dave. Gonna go ahead and ramble on. The men I know and care about are decent and never would advocate for some of what I read and see and hear in the so-called “manosphere” (not to such an extent anyway — and I do have buddies who aren’t above getting physical with women who get physical with them). I remember when I first stumbled across MRM videos and my partner caught part of a clip and got upset, telling me to not watch such shit. I argued with him on that and have several times since, explaining that I want to better comprehend where these people are coming from. He said I was wasting my time. And last night he reminded me of the same thing. While he is a father and supports a man’s rights to his child and would like to see men treated better by cops and courts, he had to call bullshit on the rest, and he’s the type to walk away once he’s done so. I’m not. I’ll stand staring into an abyss for months or years because curiosity drives me.

      But once it stops being too interesting, why stick around? I probably have a few more gripes left in me, but I’ll save them for this blog or my own YT channel. The “manosphere” is pretty unwelcoming, and I am tired of trying to prove myself to others everywhere I go. I realize that’s just the nature of the internet, and that’s a big downside to this technology. I do believe it’s aiding in fashioning an idiocracy, because the level of civility is going down and online neo-tribalism is all the rage. So now what? Is that really all there can be to this medium? If so, what a serious squandering of potential.

      Not handling my own potential the way I ought to be either, and it’d be better if I tended more to that. Because throwing rocks at idiots and assholes only confirms I too am an idiot and very likely also an asshole. And so be it, but I’d like to strive for better than that.

      • WoW, that is a lot and I do understand so I’ll make this simple. I will continue to work from ground zero and do what I can. I see a rumbling coming to the surface and I have had enough of the prevailing wisdom and been around enough to understand the damage it has done. The boys are pissed and it will be the older guys like me to keep it in perspective the best we can. I will also remain a fan of yours and enjoy your blog because I think you and I are like minded in the issues. I will also as well as others in the MRM continue to share your perspectives because they come from a place that is outside the convention. One example as you know is Stone…he challenged your thoughts but he still is a fan and I think you know more of us do listen to what you say. It gives us balance. So I give huggs to you and even though we chose different grounds to wage life’s battles we fight the same. Dave

    • Byenia says:

      And I think the paper you sent me (titled “Rethinking ‘Don’t Blame the Victim’: The Psychology of Victimhood”) helped spark this in me too. Because its words were relevant to me as well. I quibbled over the examples provided in the section breaking down responsibility, but all in all it was what I needed to read right then. Thanks for that.

    • Byenia says:

      Thanks for your civility and kindness, Dave. I do appreciate it. And I understand we all take a stance from where we think we need to be, and I wish you all the luck in working with some of these guys who are struggling with serious animosity. Hopefully they’ll be more receptive to messages coming from you.

  2. vklaatu says:

    The right wing politics that saturates the manosphere in corrosive to the extreme.

    Then again, I think these boys need some outlets for their aggression beyond video games. Aggression, which is not a bad thing in and of itself, has been shamed on a grand scale for decades. Risk taking behavior in men is tied to aggression. Many perfectly healthy activities require large amounts of aggression which evidently is bottled up in these young men.

    I pity them but frankly I’m not part of their tribe. I refuse to turn my back on women in general, just women who seek to manipulate and control for no sane reason.The beer and Xbox culture is boyhood personified. It’s not even remotely manly. These guys resist any notion that manhood can be defined beyond their notions of “man = rational, woman = irrational” nonsense.

    I can understand the desire to not be treated like a machine, but when you mention trade unions as a way to avoid working men being treated like dog meat, many of these young guys will flip out and scream “leftist” and then you get a dog pile that makes what they did to you look tame by comparison.

    I think enlistment would ironically do many these guy some good, ironically, despite their complete and not unjustified horror of it. Aurini advocated this, but he had a very reactionary motivation for doing so. I’d just like to see these young guys develop some confidence through reacquiring a face to face sense of brotherhood and not this bogus online tribalism.

    Despite the meat grinder I’ve been through with women, I have not the slightest shred of fear in regards to women. I do feel contempt for different types of women, but not a general contempt like what these manchildren display.

    Online tribalism is absurd. When confronted with this and asked if they’ve bothered to get out and help their brothers, you hear crickets in the audience. Many of them are cowards, not just some of them, until they get out and actually help each other do something other than dogpile people with whom they disagree.

    • Byenia says:

      Very true that many of them seem completely intolerant of what they think is “leftist” or “Marxist” in nature, like trade unions and whatnot. While I’m critical of the Right and the Left nearly equally, that doesn’t imply all ideas that may have been co-opted by the political Left are automatically worthless and deserve to be thrown out “baby with the bathwater”-style.

      I wish there were an alternative to the military where men could bond, as you suggested. That would be good for them, I agree. I personally advocate us figuring out ways to turn in a neo-agrarian direction where humans regain control in providing more for ourselves and our communities through our own labors rather than continuing to “whore” ourselves out on the job market for money needed to live in this exploitative grid of today. And such initiatives could be taken up by those who affiliate with the political Left or Right — it’s not incompatible with philosophies on either end of the spectrum. Plus, the hard work and skills required would keep us all productively busy and could foster a greater sense of cooperation within individual communities. PLUS, it’d serve the added bonus of allowing people to truly go their own ways in setting up intentional communities with others of like mind and values, effectively allowing folks to get on with what they need to be doing instead of sitting here arguing and bitching in an attempt to sway others’ opinions. Because we’ll never as a nation-state of this size ever reach any sort of consensus among the masses, but divided into smaller communities the members might have a shot at creating relatively peaceful working and living conditions. The need to defend boundaries and crops from looters would foster a sense of “in-group” brotherhood as well.

      But that’s just my pipe dream.

      I do agree that the online neo-tribalism is a weird phenomenon that isn’t proving to be productive. I wonder too why if these men care so much about the issues confronting other men why they aren’t figuring out ways to better help themselves and one another instead of blaming it all off on women. Because women don’t have the power to fix this broken system on our own either, so barking at us to do so isn’t going to get any of us anywhere.

      Thanks for sharing your perspective with me.

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